Legislature(1999 - 2000)
02/16/1999 05:02 PM House MLV
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* first hearing in first committee of referral
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
HOUSE SPECIAL COMMITTEE ON
MILITARY AND VETERANS' AFFAIRS
February 16, 1999
5:02 p.m.
MEMBERS PRESENT
Representative Lisa Murkowski, Chair
Representative John Coghill, Vice Chair
Representative Jeannette James
Representative Gail Phillips
Representative Pete Kott
Representative Eric Croft
Representative Richard Foster
MEMBERS ABSENT
Representative Sharon Cissna
COMMITTEE CALENDAR
* HOUSE BILL NO. 77
"An Act relating to the Joint Armed Services Committee, a permanent
interim committee of the Alaska State Legislature; and providing
for an effective date."
- MOVED HB 77 OUT OF COMMITTEE
* HOUSE BILL NO. 80
"An Act relating to a state employment preference for certain
members of the Alaska National Guard."
- MOVED HB 80 OUT OF COMMITTEE
(* First public hearing)
PREVIOUS ACTION
BILL: HB 77
SHORT TITLE: JOINT ARMED SERVICES COMMITTEE
SPONSOR(S): REPRESENTATIVES(S) MURKOWSKI, Foster, Kott, Harris,
Mulder, Phillips
Jrn-Date Jrn-Page Action
2/03/99 132 (H) READ THE FIRST TIME - REFERRAL(S)
2/03/99 132 (H) MLV, STATE AFFAIRS, FINANCE
2/05/99 147 (H) COSPONSOR(S): MULDER, PHILLIPS
2/16/99 (H) MLV AT 5:00 PM CAPITOL 120
BILL: HB 80
SHORT TITLE: EMPLOYMENT PREFERENCE FOR NAT'L GUARD
SPONSOR(S): REPRESENTATIVES(S) MORGAN, Foster, Kapsner, Masek,
Harris, Kott, Mulder, Croft, Dyson, Coghill, Rokeberg, Phillips,
Murkowski
Jrn-Date Jrn-Page Action
2/03/99 133 (H) READ THE FIRST TIME - REFERRAL(S)
2/03/99 133 (H) MLV, STATE AFFAIRS
2/05/99 147 (H) COSPONSOR(S): COGHILL, ROKEBERG,
2/05/99 147 (H) PHILLIPS
2/08/99 173 (H) COSPONSOR(S): MURKOWSKI
2/16/99 (H) MLV AT 5:00 PM CAPITOL 120
WITNESS REGISTER
CASEY SULLIVAN, Legislative Assistant
to Representative Lisa Murkowski
Alaska State Legislature
Capitol Building, Room 406
Juneau, Alaska 99801
Telephone: (907) 465-5031
POSITION STATEMENT: Presented sponsor statement for HB 77.
CHRIS NELSON, Staff to Senator Tim Kelly;
and Staff Director, Joint Committee on
Military Bases in Alaska
Alaska State Legislature
Goldstein Building
130 Seward Street, Suite 220
Juneau, Alaska 99801
Telephone: (907) 465-3865
POSITION STATEMENT: Answered questions relating to HB 77.
PHILLIP OATES, Brigadier General
Adjutant General/Commissioner Designee
Department of Military and Veterans Affairs
P.O. Box 5800
Fort Richardson, Alaska 99505-0800
Telephone: (907) 428-6003
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified on HB 77, saying his overall
comments are in favor of the bill; expressed
enthusiastic support for HB 80.
REPRESENTATIVE CARL M. MORGAN, JR.
Alaska State Legislature
Capitol Building, Room 409
Juneau, Alaska 99801
Telephone: (907) 465-4527
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified as prime sponsor of HB 80.
RICHARD ROUNTREE
P.O. Box 33183
Juneau, Alaska 99803
Telephone: (907) 789-5170
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified in support of HB 80.
BRUCE GAZAWAY, President
Alaska National Guard Enlisted Association
4420 Edinburgh Drive
Anchorage, Alaska 99515
Telephone: (907) 243-6779
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified in support of HB 80.
BRUCE J. GABRYS, President
Alaska National Guard Officer's Association
200 West 34th Avenue, Suite 727
Anchorage, Alaska 99503
Telephone: (907) 694-3874
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified in support of HB 80.
ACTION NARRATIVE
TAPE 99-2, SIDE A
Number 0001
CHAIR LISA MURKOWSKI called the House Special Committee on Military
and Veterans' Affairs meeting to order at 5:02 p.m. Members
present at the call to order were Representatives Murkowski,
Coghill, James, Phillips and Kott. Representatives Foster and
Croft arrived at 5:07 p.m. and 5:08 p.m., respectively.
HB 77 - JOINT ARMED SERVICES COMMITTEE
CHAIR MURKOWSKI announced the first order of business would be
House Bill No. 77, "An Act relating to the Joint Armed Services
Committee, a permanent interim committee of the Alaska State
Legislature; and providing for an effective date." As sponsor, she
called on staff member Casey Sullivan to present the bill.
Number 0094
CASEY SULLIVAN, Legislative Assistant to Representative Lisa
Murkowski, Alaska State Legislature, explained that the sponsor had
introduced HB 77 to assist in the many challenges facing Alaska's
military in the imminent future. He read in part from the sponsor
statement, with comments, as follows:
House Bill 77 would replace the existing Joint Committee on
Military Bases in Alaska, established in chapter 31 [SLA 1998]
with the Joint Armed Services Committee. Similarly, the Joint
Armed Services Committee would have an existence longer than
called for in the Uniform Rules, Rules 21(b) and (c). In
fact, this would be a permanent interim committee, so that
members may be activated year-round.
Creating this committee for longer than the duration of the
Twenty-first Legislature requires a change in statute and
cannot be done with a concurrent resolution; hence, this bill.
The committee would be activated on July 1, 1999, and the
legislative council would provide administrative and other
services to the committee. This committee would provide a
unified front by House, Senate, military and civilian members
to monitor timely military topics relative to Alaska.
Furthermore, ... it would review and encourage state policies
to ensure the continued well-being and education of members of
the armed forces, both active and reserve components.
As we are in the crux of two swaying forces with regard to our
military, the potential creation of new sites for the national
missile defense and the possible consolidation of existing
operations both require our considerable and constant
attention. With the military accounting for approximately
$1.7 billion of Alaska's economy, it is imperative that the
legislature take a leading role to monitor the economic impact
of future military-related events. This Joint ... Armed
Services Committee will provide that focus.
Number 0219
REPRESENTATIVE PHILLIPS noted that administrative services
oversight would come from the legislative council. She asked
whether a full-time interim staff member is anticipated, and if so,
where.
MR. SULLIVAN replied that some staff is anticipated during that
time, although probably not full-time.
REPRESENTATIVE PHILLIPS asked whether it would be staff from the
House Special Committee on Military and Veterans' Affairs, the
Senate or the legislative council.
CHAIR MURKOWSKI expressed her understanding that any interim staff
would be located in Anchorage. Noting that Senator Kelly has
introduced a similar measure in the Senate, she said Chris Nelson
might have additional information from the Senate hearings.
Number 0348
CHRIS NELSON, Staff to Senator Tim Kelly; and Staff Director, Joint
Committee on Military Bases in Alaska, Alaska State Legislature,
noted that the Joint Committee on Military Bases in Alaska is what
HB 77 proposes to replace. Although the initial approach when
forming it last year was a "stand-alone committee," the legislature
had been reluctant to institutionalize it that far with a
permanent, separate staff. Mr. Nelson stated the intention with HB
77 that committee members will provide the staff resources from
their own staffs.
MR. NELSON suggested Anchorage is the most appropriate location for
staff because it provides access to the Alaskan Command and to the
U.S. Army Alaska (USARAK) at Fort Richardson, the major components
being served with this; it also allows access to the state regional
area headquarters for the National Guard. Mr. Nelson stated the
intention with the new committee of doing more with less, using
existing resources and stretching them as far as possible.
Number 0459
REPRESENTATIVE COGHILL asked why there is an allowance for per diem
but no fiscal note.
MR. NELSON said members' per diem will be borne either by the
legislative council or by session funds, if they are in session.
The obligation would be for the five public members; the intent is
to look to the legislative council to fund that, and they expect
the expense to be minimal. They don't anticipate a lot of travel.
The current prototype committee met in Fairbanks and took the
public members up there, for example, doing an outstanding tour of
Eielson Air Force Base. Mr. Nelson expressed hope that committee
members would get up-to-date tours of current installations, with
an eye to protection and use of those resources to expand military
participation and basically sell the U.S. Department of Defense on
the tremendous resources currently available but under-utilized in
Alaska. He pointed out that members on the existing committee have
primarily participated by teleconference.
Number 0561
REPRESENTATIVE PHILLIPS clarified that for any committee
established which doesn't have its own staff, those expenses are
borne either by the legislative council or by the individual
offices. The travel could also be borne by the leadership.
Therefore, there is no need for a fiscal note for legislative
members.
Number 0594
MR. NELSON referred members to a thick document titled, "The
Defense Community in Texas: A Master Plan for the Future," a
comprehensive report outlining a proposal to the Texas legislature
and governor on what it is believed is needed to support the
military community there; he said it contains some excellent ideas.
Mr. Nelson emphasized that other states are working actively to
promote military presence in their states. For example, New York
appropriates about $4 million annually through its community and
regional development funds to promote activities on its military
bases; at least one, Fort Drum, directly competes with Alaska.
MR. NELSON said he believes Alaska has done a pretty good job with
the resources available; it is now positioned to take the next
step, the establishment of this committee, with public members and
representing all the armed services. They have been conscientious
about including the U.S. Coast Guard, by increasing the number of
public members on the committee and having one appointed upon the
recommendation of the commander of the U.S. Coast Guard district.
Number 0709
REPRESENTATIVE JAMES asked where the public members' per diem will
come from.
MR. NELSON said the legislative council.
REPRESENTATIVE JAMES said it seems that a fiscal note for
additional per diem would be required if an interim committee is
added that includes people who need per diem, unless they take the
place of others who had been receiving per diem.
Number 0786
CHAIR MURKOWSKI explained that her office had been informed there
was no independent fiscal note, that the expenditures would be
basically through legislative council. She agreed with a comment
by Representative Croft that it would be money already budgeted.
REPRESENTATIVE PHILLIPS suggested that for the most part, the
expenses of the public members will probably be picked up by the
respective entities. For example, the Municipality of Anchorage
would pick up costs for its representative, as would the North Star
Borough, and costs for the person from the Department of Military
and Veterans Affairs would come out of that budget.
Number 0874
MR. NELSON informed members that on the current Joint Committee on
Military Bases, the legislative council picked up expenses of the
three public members for the two meetings. For the Anchorage
meeting, they paid for the Fairbanks public member to attend, and
for the Fairbanks meeting, they provided transportation and one
day's per diem for the Anchorage public member, a total of three
days' per diem in the last eight months.
Number 0910
REPRESENTATIVE CROFT asked whether the legislative council had made
a corresponding cut to another part of the legislature's budget.
MR. NELSON offered to provide an answer.
Number 0943
REPRESENTATIVE CROFT said although it probably would be a low
fiscal note, unobjectionable even in these times, he didn't see how
it could truly be a zero fiscal note, when it would cost more.
CHAIR MURKOWSKI responded that they could request a fiscal note
that accounts for it. She pointed out the bill's House Finance
Standing Committee referral.
Number 1035
PHILLIP OATES, Brigadier General, Adjutant General/Commissioner
Designee, Department of Military and Veterans Affairs, testified
via teleconference from Anchorage, saying his overall comments
would be in favor of HB 77. He said as a general statement that
establishing a more permanent Joint Armed Services Committee is
good for the state; longevity will count in considering these
matters, which are not on a year-to-year basis. In addition, he
likes the idea of a unified front by the House and Senate, as well
as by military and civilian members.
Number 1133
REPRESENTATIVE PHILLIPS made a motion to move HB 77 out of
committee with individual recommendations. There being no
objection, HB 77 moved from the House Special Committee on Military
and Veterans' Affairs.
HB 80 - EMPLOYMENT PREFERENCE FOR NAT'L GUARD
Number 1150
CHAIR MURKOWSKI announced the next order of business would be House
Bill No. 80, "An Act relating to a state employment preference for
certain members of the Alaska National Guard."
Number 1158
REPRESENTATIVE CARL M. MORGAN, JR., Alaska State Legislature, prime
sponsor of HB 80, explained that the bill gives three preference
points for state jobs to any member of the Alaska National Guard
who has served for eight years; veterans receive five points,
whereas disabled veterans receive ten points. The bill recognizes
the tremendous contribution of Alaska National Guard members, and
it provides an incentive to remain in the organization. He said HB
77 is win-win legislation, with no fiscal note.
Number 1280
REPRESENTATIVE FOSTER commended the sponsor.
REPRESENTATIVE PHILLIPS also stated appreciation, saying she has
been concerned about those leaving the Alaska National Guard, as
well as decline in the enrollment. She expressed hope that this
will turn that around.
Number 1337
PHILLIP OATES, Brigadier General, Adjutant General/Commissioner
Designee, Department of Military and Veterans Affairs, testified
again via teleconference from Anchorage, saying HB 80 has his
enthusiastic support; it is good for retention and recognizes the
caliber of individuals who have served. He reminded members that
it is the Alaska National Guard, and HB 80 gives a preference to
those who have served Alaska.
CHAIR MURKOWSKI asked whether it is true that at the federal level
there is no preference given to members of the guard.
GENERAL OATES said that is his understanding. He said he can
understand it for those in active service who have served outside
of Alaska, but here in Alaska he believes it can be corrected by
recognizing those who chose to serve Alaska first and then the
nation.
Number 1456
RICHARD ROUNTREE came forward to testify, explaining that he is a
retired long-term guardsman. He urged passage of HB 80, saying the
Alaska National Guard has done many things in the state besides
just carrying rifles for the federal mission. Very active in the
1964 earthquake, the Fairbanks flood and numerous disasters over
the years, these people either used annual leave or volunteered for
that work. This is something small that can be done to help retain
them so that they are available in times of disaster, when they
have certainly proven to be helpful.
Number 1504
BRUCE GAZAWAY, President, Alaska National Guard Enlisted
Association, testified via teleconference from Anchorage, noting
that he had provided written testimony [copy in packets]. He
thanked Representative Morgan for being "our champion on this." He
pointed out that the existing federally established employment
preference is for military veterans who had served during certain
defined periods of combat; his organization endorses that and
doesn't want it modified. However, in HB 80 the three guard
preference points are to be awarded to serving members with eight
years of good service. Not a reward for past service but a device
to encourage further service, this modest proposal, with little or
no cost, is a good incentive to retain trained technicians and
mid-level managers that make the machinery move smoothly. These
include master mechanics, shop foremen, load masters, pilots, squad
leaders and platoon leaders. Although retention is a problem in
all of the armed services, the Alaska National Guard is primarily
losing people in the middle of their careers, due to stress from
overseas employment, and from family and work. Mr. Gazaway's
organization sees HB 80 as an effective tool to stop that flow of
manpower.
Number 1631
REPRESENTATIVE PHILLIPS referred to page 2 of Mr. Gazaway's written
testimony, which says his organization wouldn't object if HB 80
were amended to extend this preference to retired guard members.
She asked how many people that might be.
MR. GAZAWAY said he didn't know, although of the veterans in
Alaska, a good portion are guard members.
REPRESENTATIVE PHILLIPS asked about Mr. Gazaway's assertion on page
3 of the same document that the Army and Air National Guard suffer
a 10-to-20 percent dropout rate every year.
MR. GAZAWAY said that is his understanding, based on conversations
with members of the recruiting staff. He suggested looking to the
Department of Military and Veterans Affairs for more precise
figures.
Number 1673
CHAIR MURKOWSKI asked whether there is a point where an individual
has been in for long enough that he or she keeps with it.
MR. GAZAWAY replied that conventional wisdom, without hard facts,
is that from about the third year to the tenth year seems to be the
time when most people drop out. He suggested General Oates could
provide better insight.
CHAIR MURKOWSKI asked whether there is any magic to the eight years
within the Alaska National Guard that had been picked.
MR. GAZAWAY said it had seemed to be a convenient number, although
six years would also work fine. He suggested ten years would be
much too long, however, from his experience.
Number 1740
GENERAL OATES said he believes the previous testimony is accurate,
although he doesn't have the figures in front of him. He said he
believes they are losing about 20 percent, for a number of reasons.
Number 1776
BRUCE J. GABRYS, President, Alaska National Guard Officer's
Association (ANGOA), testified via teleconference from Anchorage,
noting that he had sent a letter in support of HB 80 to the
sponsor's office [in packets]. He said that Alaska National Guard
service has been changing over the years; the active component
seldom deploys anymore without having some National Guard support
go with them, through aviation or other support such as truck
drivers who move equipment and materials. If a full unit were
called up for Desert Storm or for service in Bosnia, for example,
then those individuals would share some of the veterans' benefits.
However, they are individual volunteers, in many cases used to
"backfill" positions, either in the United States or in other parts
of the world, as active component units are pulled to go to a
particular "hot spot." These volunteers don't get a campaign
ribbon, nor do they qualify for federal veterans' benefits.
MR. GABRYS recounted how a detachment of the Alaska Army National
Guard was recently deployed to Germany for six months, in order to
free up an active-component unit to travel to Bosnia. Those
individuals did not get credit for a tour in that theater because
they were replacements for an active-duty unit. He said that is
where HB 80, which gives three points, would recognize some of the
contributions made by the Alaska National Guard, not only to the
federal mission but also in an ever-increasing state mission. He
emphasized that it is not meant to compete with - nor be put on a
par with - contributions by veterans during a time of war, nor by
those who were disabled or were prisoners of war. He stated the
belief that three points is an appropriate level for that kind of
recognition.
Number 1911
MR. GABRYS told members his second point relates to retention. He
pointed out that there is a fairly high attrition rate when
soldiers and airmen come into either the active component or the
National Guard. In recognition of that, there are many incentives
for first-term enlistments to remain. However, after getting to
the level of four years, six years or eight years, there has been
a significant investment in the training of these individuals; in
addition, they have obtained skills that must be replaced if they
leave. These are the equivalent of mid-level managers, and they
are difficult to replace. Furthermore, after that first enlistment
is over, there are relatively few external incentives, such as
bonuses, to re-enlist; that is where Mr. Gabrys believes the time
period picked for the three-point preference for state employment
would help. Many of the mid-career people are in the midst of
choosing careers; this would be an additional incentive to continue
Alaska National Guard membership.
Number 2013
REPRESENTATIVE KOTT asked whether there had been discussion with
veterans' groups about the three points, as opposed to the five
points for active veterans; he noted that he himself had sponsored
that legislation a few years ago.
REPRESENTATIVE MORGAN said there had been some dialogue, and the
veterans wouldn't go for five points. With three points, however,
they are being quiet and supporting this bill.
Number 2084
REPRESENTATIVE FOSTER made a motion to move HB 80 out of committee
with individual recommendations and the attached [zero] fiscal
note. There being no objection, HB 80 moved from the House Special
Committee on Military and Veterans' Affairs.
Number 2110
CHAIR MURKOWSKI advised members that they should have received an
invitation to participate in the Northern Edge Maneuvers, to be
held outside of Fort Greely on March 1. She and Senator Wilken are
helping to coordinate that; she asked members to inform her or
Senator Wilken by the end of the week whether they plan to attend.
Number 2127
REPRESENTATIVE CROFT put a conflict on the record, saying he has
almost completed the process of joining the guard. [HB 80 was
moved out of committee.]
ADJOURNMENT
Number 2164
There being no further business before the committee, the House
Special Committee on Military and Veterans' Affairs meeting was
adjourned at 5:40 p.m.
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